The Two Femmes Queering the Straightest Show Around
Bachelor Gaytion’s logo.
Because we are obsessed with the intersection of pop culture and feminist critique, a lot of time is spent at Uterish headquarters (our group text) unpacking the Bachelor franchise. Two years ago, Alex wrote that the Bachelor franchise exists “at the juncture of commodified romance, endorsed voyeurism, and extreme heteronormativity,” and “seem[s] irredeemably problematic.” We’re still thinking about that today. It’s worth asking: as feminists, why exactly is it so interesting to think about this franchise from a critical standpoint? Why watch at all?
We (Greta and Alex) recently had the opportunity to ask these questions of our favorite Bachelor Nation fans/theorists. Ingrid and Toni co-host the podcast Bachelor Gaytion, a talk show between friends––as they say in their first episode, they’re “two queer friends, living in Seattle, who are very passionate about everything Bachelor [and are] just here to recap everything through a queer lens.” Toni is a full-time legal assistant preparing to pursue her JD, who in her free time enjoys all things pop culture, particularly reality television. Ingrid is an aesthetician who is passionate about good food, caring for their cats, and of course reality TV.
As Toni and Ingrid rehash the drama of The Bachelor in their podcast, they examine cisheteropatriarchy, the recent profitability of “queer” contestants, and (of course) the astrological stakes of having a ton of Aries’ all in a room together. As huge fans of the podcast, we were excited to ask Ingrid and Toni why it’s so interesting to think about the semi-polygamous tribute to compulsory heterosexuality that is the Bachelor franchise. The following conversation has been edited for length and clarity.
Greta: So let's just kick it off. How did Bachelor Gaytion get started?
Ingrid: I feel like Toni is cooler than me, and then has been wanting to have a podcast for a while.
Toni: I think at some point we both were like, people would listen to us talk about this, right? It was mostly borne out of us already talking about The Bachelor all the time. And personally, I've listened to some episodes of other Bachelor podcasts, but it's hard to find conversation about reality TV that’s relatable.
Ingrid: And relevant to us.
Toni: Yeah. We wanted to create something that felt like we were having a conversation with all of our other queer friends who also watch a lot of The Bachelor, a lot of reality TV.
Alex: If you had to choose, which of the franchise: The Bachelor, The Bachelorette or Bachelor in Paradise, do you both like best, and why?
Toni: I think Ari was my first season––I'm actually pretty new to the franchise. But I would say that so far I’ve enjoyed The Bachelorette the most. Mostly because I just like watching all of the guys just combust over the competition. I just think that they bring drama to it.
Ingrid: I like Bachelor in Paradise cause I feel like it's the Gemini of the three––there's just way, way too much happening really fast. So it feels the most engaging to me.
Greta: That's fair. I also like The Bachelorette the best, which I feel like has been a marginalized opinion, and so now I'm in charge of being the caretaker of the fact that The Bachelorette is the best of the franchise.
Toni: Keep the campaign running.
Greta: I was literally just evangelizing my dad on this point the other day––
Toni: Does your dad watch the franchise?
Greta: No, but regardless. It's important! I was trying to explain how it's different to see a bunch of girls fight than to see a bunch of guys fight. You get something different out of the experience.
Toni: Out of the seasons that I've seen, I feel like The Bachelor is a harder season to make entertaining for me as a viewer. Because it's harder to be critically-minded watching the women fight. I feel like with the men, there's just so much toxic masculinity involved that it's just funnier and more lighthearted, and easier for me to laugh at it all.
Ingrid: Whereas when we're recording the podcast, The Bachelor’s probably the hardest season for us to record, because I'm not super interested in criticizing the women.
Toni: And also the memes are harder for me to make, because I don't want to put the women on blast, because people online are so much meaner to the women. So it's kind of a fine line for me. I don't want to make it a situation where I feel like I’m the one propping up the women to be publicly humiliated.
Ingrid: Our content really changes because I'm not interested in doing anything that will initiate them being bullied––
Toni: It's harder to have a conversation about the women.
Ingrid: Whereas I have no qualms about putting the men on blast.
Alex: I think to both of your points, the precedent for talking about women contestants on The Bachelor is only negative and sexist, and so it's hard to find a new way to enter that conversation.
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Greta: Going off of that point, why, as a queer person, watch it all? What's the point?
Ingrid: I think part of it is a bit of voyeurism––it’s so far removed from our dating reality.
Toni: I mean, The Bachelor has always been the prime example of heteronormative culture on reality TV. We both love reality TV in general because of that voyeurism, because it’s interesting to watch people who are so disconnected from reality––actual reality. Watching that is fun for us.
But The Bachelor has a very special place in that it’s basically run to prop up all of these heteronormative ideals about relationships, dating, romance, and love. So I think that in terms of voyeurism, it’s really satisfying. It’s a fascinating, can’t-look-away sort of thing to watch.
Ingrid: And I do think it’s interesting to sort of insert ourselves in the text, right? Like to insert ourselves and our community into something that wasn’t made for us. And Toni and I definitely design the podcast to be lighthearted, and to create a playful space that’s fun for queer people, because a lot of content that’s made by us or for us ends up being really heavy.
Toni: There’s only so much space that queer narratives take up in media, and a big criticism I have is that a lot of it is so heavy and negative.
Ingrid: And trauma-based.
Toni: And trauma-based, and people take it so much more seriously because of that. So I think it’s just fun to check out, watching straight reality television––it’s just really fun to do.
Ingrid: It’s just fun!
Toni: It’s just fun, and talking about it is just fun. I think if we had to psychoanalyze why we like it, there would be elements of voyeurism and the political aspects of the franchise. But at the end of the day it’s just like, god, I love it.
Alex: Is there something special about The Bachelor that makes it particularly alluring for a queer gaze and queer critique?
Toni: It’s just a world that we’re never going to be a part of. Even having this storyline of Demi* being the first queer castmate being accepted by the franchise––in the same way that Queer Eye is made for straight consumption, I feel that a lot of Demi’s narrative was for straight consumption. And that goes back to the whole idea that we’re not going to be a part of this. So it’s just fascinating for us to feel like we have an upper hand in critiquing it, I guess.
Ingrid: It’s almost like it can’t let me down because it wasn’t made for me. And even with Demi’s storyline, she’s a thin, blonde, cis woman and so is her partner. She’s like a starter-queer––really digestible for straight folk.
Greta: Do you think that Demi changed The Bachelor franchise at all?
Toni: I don’t think she changed it. Time will tell if they want to open up filming for more queer identities, but my gut feeling is that they had a character who was really bankable. Their audiences love Demi. I think they ran with the fact that she was like, “Hey, I need to come out and be open about my sexuality while I’m a part of your cast, so this is how you have to meet those parameters.” I see a facet of how that was opportunistic for straight people to feel cool with gay people, but only in the way that Demi is, which as Ingrid has already said, fits a very particular mold.
Ingrid: She’s nonthreatening. And let’s say there was a gay season, it would still be for straight people. Just like Queer Eye.
Toni: And that’s not why we watch. I don’t watch The Bachelor the way I watched the Are You the One season that was all queer. I don’t watch The Bachelor to find relatability at all. It’s escapism.
Greta: You’ve alluded to the fact that straight people watch a different show than queer people do. Could you explain what that means?
Ingrid: I have no idea how straight people see anything.
Toni: I would guess that it’s actually relatable to them. Especially where there are storylines like, “my ideal straight marriage didn’t turn out the way I thought it would, so please let me believe in straight love again, save me from that.” That’s why Peter’s an interesting Bachelor, because he’s so obsessed with the nuclear ideal family unit. I guess if I had to put my mind in the mind of a straight viewer they’re watching to find some sort of relatability to the plotlines.
Ingrid: I think it still acts as a reinforcer of all the things they’re supposed to want. Like, I am 32, I am getting old, I need to get married.
Toni: I agree with that––we got a bit of backlash when we said it was fucked up that Luke was treating Hannah* that way over not being celibate. I think some people actually championed him because of his celibacy and his demanding that from a partner. I got a little glimpse into the fact that there are a lot of people out there; we’re obviously not all queer people watching The Bachelor.
Alex: You’ve identified the podcast as “queering The Bachelor” or queering the Bachelor franchise––do you think watching The Bachelor as a queer person is doing the work of queering the show? Or do you think there are other elements to queering a cultural object?
Ingrid: I think that our critique is queering it. I don’t think there’s any other way to insert ourselves. The franchise itself is always going to be straight––this is going to be controversial, but I don’t think that Demi queered The Bachelor. I think critique is actually the only way to do that.
Toni: I think our conversation is pretty much the tool that we have.
Greta: Alex just asked the best last question, but I have a completely non-poignant last question, which is: how did you guys meet?
Toni: Oh my god.
Ingrid: It’s so cute.
Toni: Are you ready to tell the story? You’re better at telling the story.
Ingrid: It’s SO lovely. I moved to Houston after my junior year of high school, and I think anyone can imagine how fucking awful it would be to move from Seattle to Texas your senior year of high school.
Toni: I just remember seeing them and knowing they were from Seattle and being like...why did they come here?
Ingrid: Toni was in my English class, and I knew that she had, you know... “liberal politics.” [To Toni] You must have said something to me, like oh you’re from Seattle, you’re not a fucking monster, or something. But anyways, the real deal is that my birthday is really early in the school year because I’m a Libra, and I had no friends. And she, no joke, made me a birthday card that was gorgeous, and I still have it. She had our other kind-of friend from class sign it and it just blossomed from there.
Toni: We were friends and then we ended up doing theater together.
Greta: Oh my god. Of course ex-theater kids started a podcast together.
Ingrid: I think that’s the gayest thing that’s happened so far.
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